Okay-- I know I am opening myself to loads of critisim, but in an attempt to gather as much information as I can to make the best informed decision I am going to post this in hopes for some help: thanks in advance for reading this and giving it some thought, maybe it will help others in same sitution:

History/Background-

1- I am 38 years old and have been training for 20 years... I swim competitivley and train 8-12 hours per week-- my shoulder are a little shot. I am 6'5" 230

2- I want to make gains that will be with me for a while-- abut 10-15 pounds and lose some body fat as well.. I also am very interested in HGH for growing NEW muscle cells as that seems like it will stay with a person loger and perminantly-

3- I have Male Pattern Baldness that is becoming more prominant every year.

4- I have tried Var and Tbol with some success except I was shut down BIG TIME (probobly from Tbol).


Cycle idas:

1- I want to try Deca as it seems that it will help my joints and not agrivate MPB-- but eevryone says to do it witha test base. test, however WILL definatly lead to more thinning and I cant take propecia because of the negative effect with the Deca--

2- Do I just do a Test only cycle with Var and take propecia

3- Do i try and make a run at Deca only with an HCG and Nov a Prov PCT?

I have been reading alot about this and if I have asked something stupid or seem like I missed something please let me know-- Also what would you do if you had my goals and background specs?

Thanks in advance for all your positive help and advice-- I have reliable sources for all these ASS and sups and the money-- just need the game plan--

What do you mean by saying that your shoulders are "a little shot." I'm curious because I've had shoulder problems myself, and I have run cycles while I was having shoulder problems. I might be able to help if you give me some background info.

Let me clarify that-- I have rotator Cuff problems from swiimming and flat bench-- I knocked off military press etc because it was agravating them- they get sore and weak from overuse now...

An intersting note: when I was cycling Tbol and Var it was a mirical for the joints-- also I hear HGH and Deca are good as well--

I am less concerned with joint problems and more with MPB and deca dick-- and getting shut down than anything.. I cant very well do HCG in my PCT because of DHT--


So: 1- I want to try Deca as it seems that it will help my joints and not agrivate MPB-- but eevryone says to do it witha test base. test, however WILL definatly lead to more thinning and I cant take propecia because of the negative effect with the Deca--

2- Do I just do a Test only cycle with Var and take propecia

3- Do i try and make a run at Deca only with an HCG and Nov a Prov PCT?

for your first cycle...I'd say non of the ubove...do a test only cycle

test E or C 500mgs/week split in 2 shots on monday and thursday

PCT

1500-2500ius Hcg on the 1st/5th day of PCT and clomid step down method you'll be happy with your results if this is your first cycle

rex

ok. #2. scratch deca, will shut you down and u need propecia and its not necessary at all first cycle prob overkill and you won't know what is causing sides with two steroids. do test only 490mg/wk enanthate or cypionate whichever is cheaper or dosed higher no diff. for 9 wks pinning 280mg. every 4 days if you can't use hcg... 10 or more wks. hcg is recommended. first off read all the stickys starting with "test as a base for all cycles-the resurrection". u need all the good info you can get b4 your first cycle and make sure you do proper pct for your well-being and to keep gains. to prob eliminate most all sides take .5mg arimidex eod, but will reduce gains some because it keeps estrogen too low for maximum muscle gains, but leaner and little less loss at end of cycle, this is the safest. nolvadex 20mg/day would reduce gains less, but a better chance of sides. best for gains take nolvadex as needed if gyno occurs and arimidex or nolvadex as needed for water retention, i like to pop just one arimidex when i get a little water bloat, but i'm really lean and therefore i have'nt had much problems with water. If you want a second substance you could do t-bol for 5 wks., but if you do it i would recommend it mid cycle after you've seen how the test affects you and then you'd know if the t-bol was causing sides but it prob won't def won't give the sides you had with no test. eat clean for lesser sides and eat often. can't help you with hgh, no experience. research, be patient, and you'll be

Okay, thanks for your replies and help. So option #2 sounds to be the decision. But should I use Propicia or not to help control MPB? Also, Rex did you mean Clomid step down method, meaning reduce test weekly or just add more clomid weekly. I apreciate when Sup Mods chime in very much..

Thanks again..

propecia cant hurt in any way i don't think, but maybe someone else can chime in i don't use it. read the bottom of Rex's reply box it shows clomid stepdown for pct. which is what he was talking about, no clomid on cycle only nolvadex or arimiplex to reduce/stop sides. start pct 2.5 wks after last pin of test-e or c

Thanks Rex-- should have read fine print! so whats the consensus on propecia with a simple test run? Anybody??